Hello USA.

In late June, I'll be driving my restored Schleicher ASK-13 from
Marfa, Texas, to the International Vintage Sailplane Meet (IVSM) on
Harris Hill, near Elmira, NY.

Ready to replace the tires on my enclosed Swan trailer (a Cobra copy),
my local tire suppliers cannot find the "T" or "ST" for Trailer in
size 195/65R15.
They say that 195 size is only available in P (for passenger) which
has a slightly lower load rating. Closest size in T for Trailer is
205/65/R15 which are a bit too large for the existing fenders.
Trailer loaded with glider total weight is about 2600 pounds.
Any sources for the original 195/65 R15 T or ST trailer tires out
there?
Otherwise I'll modify the fenders.

I only drive 55 mph (5 mph over the German 80 kph speed limit for many
glider trailers.) The big Swan trailer is quite tall to accommodate
the wide chord of the ASK-13 wing root. I stay off Interstate
highways to avoid the trucks (and not be a slow-moving hazard) and
take the scenic backroads across the USA, which are often smoother and
a more relaxed, interesting route than the Interstates.

On May 26, 6:55*am, Burt Compton - Marfa > wrote:
> Hello USA.
>
> In late June, I'll be driving my restored Schleicher ASK-13 from
> Marfa, Texas, to the International Vintage Sailplane Meet (IVSM) on
> Harris Hill, near Elmira, NY.
>
> Ready to replace the tires on my enclosed Swan trailer (a Cobra copy),
> my local tire suppliers cannot find the "T" or "ST" for Trailer in
> size 195/65R15.
> They say that 195 size is only available in P (for passenger) which
> has a slightly lower load rating. * Closest size in T for Trailer is
> 205/65/R15 which are a bit too large for the existing fenders.
> Trailer loaded with glider total weight is about 2600 pounds.
> Any sources for the original 195/65 R15 T or ST trailer tires out
> there?
> Otherwise I'll modify the fenders.
>
> I only drive 55 mph (5 mph over the German 80 kph speed limit for many
> glider trailers.) *The big Swan trailer is quite tall to accommodate
> the wide chord of the ASK-13 wing root. *I stay off Interstate
> highways to avoid the trucks (and not be a slow-moving hazard) and
> take the scenic backroads across the USA, which are often smoother and
> a more relaxed, interesting route than the Interstates.

I have been using P rated tires on my trailer for the last few years
with no problems. The trailer tows easy and straight, I have put
several thousand miles on at freeway speeds. The total weight on my
trailer is a little less than yours though. One other thought on
finding trailer tires. If you have a farm or ranch store nearby, check
with them. My local CAL-Ranch store stocks a wide variety of trailer
tires already mounted on rims for less than the tire stores sell the
tires for.

Highly recommend this product line, America's tire had them in 2 days
for about $70/side installed:

http://www.greenball.com/

Main short term advantage of the of the "T" rated tire is stiffer
sidewalls=less sway, which will enable higher speeds. Long term, much
greater life and less chance of deformation and degradation which can
lead to blowouts.

There is a 195/75/15 which is close to your needs, plus others in the
Greenball II line. I did not see a radial in your size, but note that
Bias will last and has stiffer sidewalls, although it might ride
rougher. My instruments incuding a Sage have survived just fine.

http://www.greenball.com/products.php?products_id=4

Check out the excellent calculators on the Tire Rack to get the actual
dimensions. You can also get the tires shaved at a quality shop if
they are a little big, but I doubt you will need to.

http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Tire%20Diameter%20Calculator

Just like in cars, the right trailer tires can make a big difference
in handling. My setup ('95 Integra GS-R/SA box trailer, 2600lbs each)
is stable at 70 with only 8% on the tongue, and I get 22mpg at 55 mph
with the trailer tires at 50 psi. With the "P" tires, anything over
60 was marginal at best. The tires I have now (Greenball II,
ST205/65D14) are 8 YO with no sign of wear or degradation.


aerodyne
Cirrus "660"

On May 26, 8:49*am, aerodyne > wrote:
> Highly recommend this product line, America's tire had them in 2 days
> for about $70/side installed:
>
> http://www.greenball.com/
>
> Main short term advantage of the *of the "T" rated tire is stiffer
> sidewalls=less sway, which will enable higher speeds. *Long term, much
> greater life and less chance of deformation and degradation which can
> lead to blowouts.
>
> There is a 195/75/15 which is close to your needs, plus others in the
> Greenball II line. *I did not see a radial in your size, but note that
> Bias will last and has stiffer sidewalls, although it might ride
> rougher. *My instruments incuding a Sage have survived just fine.
>
> http://www.greenball.com/products.php?products_id=4
>
> Check out the excellent calculators on the Tire Rack to get the actual
> dimensions. *You can also get the tires shaved at a quality shop if
> they are a little big, but I doubt you will need to.
>
> http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Tire%20Diameter%20Calculator
>
> Just like in cars, the right trailer tires can make a big difference
> in handling. *My setup ('95 Integra GS-R/SA box trailer, 2600lbs each)
> is stable at 70 with only 8% on the tongue, and I get 22mpg at 55 mph
> with the trailer tires at 50 psi. *With the "P" tires, anything over
> 60 was marginal at best. The tires I have now (Greenball II,
> ST205/65D14) are 8 YO with no sign of wear or degradation.
>
> aerodyne
> Cirrus "660"
Mike you wrote;
"The tires I have now (Greenball II,
ST205/65D14) are 8 YO with no sign of wear or degradation"
Be careful here, even covered up tires in desert conditions will
detariate from the ultra violet rays of the sun in only a few years.
I fly straight out cross country and put considerable miles on my
trailer/tires and you are right trailer tires do much better.
However after 4 years I just replace them anyway ( and usually they
still look good). Nothing worst than a blowout in the middle of the
toolies, which happened to my straight out partner and good friend,
yep on Hwy 50 "the loneliest hwy in America" right in the middle of
it. He too thought that his 6 or 8 year old tires were ok.
PeterK

On May 26, 9:55*am, PK > wrote:
> On May 26, 8:49*am, aerodyne > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Highly recommend this product line, America's tire had them in 2 days
> > for about $70/side installed:
>
> >http://www.greenball.com/
>
> > Main short term advantage of the *of the "T" rated tire is stiffer
> > sidewalls=less sway, which will enable higher speeds. *Long term, much
> > greater life and less chance of deformation and degradation which can
> > lead to blowouts.
>
> > There is a 195/75/15 which is close to your needs, plus others in the
> > Greenball II line. *I did not see a radial in your size, but note that
> > Bias will last and has stiffer sidewalls, although it might ride
> > rougher. *My instruments incuding a Sage have survived just fine.
>
> >http://www.greenball.com/products.php?products_id=4
>
> > Check out the excellent calculators on the Tire Rack to get the actual
> > dimensions. *You can also get the tires shaved at a quality shop if
> > they are a little big, but I doubt you will need to.
>
> >http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Tire%20Diameter%20Calculator
>
> > Just like in cars, the right trailer tires can make a big difference
> > in handling. *My setup ('95 Integra GS-R/SA box trailer, 2600lbs each)
> > is stable at 70 with only 8% on the tongue, and I get 22mpg at 55 mph
> > with the trailer tires at 50 psi. *With the "P" tires, anything over
> > 60 was marginal at best. The tires I have now (Greenball II,
> > ST205/65D14) are 8 YO with no sign of wear or degradation.
>
> > aerodyne
> > Cirrus "660"
>
> Mike you wrote;
> "The tires I have now (Greenball II,
> ST205/65D14) are 8 YO with no sign of wear or degradation"
> Be careful here, even covered up tires in desert conditions will
> detariate from the ultra violet rays of the sun in only a few years.
> I fly straight out cross country and put considerable miles on my
> trailer/tires and you are right trailer tires do much better.
> However after 4 years I just replace them anyway ( and usually they
> still look good). Nothing worst than a blowout in the middle of the
> toolies, which happened to my straight out partner and good friend,
> yep on Hwy 50 "the loneliest hwy in America" right in the middle of
> it. He too thought that his 6 or 8 year old tires were ok.
> PeterK- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I always park in the same orientation, and compare the north tire with
the south facing one. I also note leak rates which can be an early
sign of hidden damage. No doubt, most trailer tires will rot before
they wear out, so vigilance is important.

A good trailer tire will have special compounds in it to resist UV and
standing for long periods. In my case I can see a greenish stain
under the tires on hard surfaces. There are also more plies in the
sidewall of a ST tire than a P tire, or a bias tire than a radial,
another reason I choose bias. Most of the glider trailers I have seen
do NOT have ST rated tires on them, and all the failures I have seen/
heard of have been "P" tires that were either very old and/or showing
cracks in the sidewalls.

I think it is very unlikely any tire would fail under a steady state
condition without some type of visible damage. Despite that they
should be age limited, I think 8 years might be a max limit here in
the southwest. Probably a good idea to jack up the trailer at the
start of the season and check both sides of the tire for bulges and
hairline cracks under max inflation. I do that anyways to check/
adjust the brakes.

Actually, I mispoke earlier on the age of the tires have now. I have
5.5 years on the tires, I will replace them regardless next season as
I choose not to carry a spare.

aerodyne

On 5/26/2012 5:55 AM, Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
> Hello USA.
>
> In late June, I'll be driving my restored Schleicher ASK-13 from
> Marfa, Texas, to the International Vintage Sailplane Meet (IVSM) on
> Harris Hill, near Elmira, NY.
>
> Ready to replace the tires on my enclosed Swan trailer (a Cobra copy),
> my local tire suppliers cannot find the "T" or "ST" for Trailer in
> size 195/65R15.
> They say that 195 size is only available in P (for passenger) which
> has a slightly lower load rating. Closest size in T for Trailer is
> 205/65/R15 which are a bit too large for the existing fenders.
> Trailer loaded with glider total weight is about 2600 pounds.
> Any sources for the original 195/65 R15 T or ST trailer tires out
> there?
> Otherwise I'll modify the fenders.
>
> I only drive 55 mph (5 mph over the German 80 kph speed limit for many
> glider trailers.) The big Swan trailer is quite tall to accommodate
> the wide chord of the ASK-13 wing root. I stay off Interstate
> highways to avoid the trucks (and not be a slow-moving hazard) and
> take the scenic backroads across the USA, which are often smoother and
> a more relaxed, interesting route than the Interstates.

LT (light truck) rated radial tires are an excellent substitute for ST
rated tires, and can had in much higher speed ratings (not an issue in
your case). Have your dealer look for one that meets your size and load
requirements.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Burt,

I, too, have a Swan trailer with the 195/65 R15 passenger car tires. And I, too, could not find "trailer" tires that would fit that rim and also fit under the fender.

This past Saturday, I bought two new tires that are, I think, 205/65 R15 passenger car tires. It's a brand I've never heard of, but I bought them anyway. They are load rated to 1,400 lbs at 51 psi. The original tires were load rated to 1,365 lbs at 45 psi, if memory serves me right.

Knowing a "trailer" tire wouldn't fit, I wanted a Michelin tire with appropriate size and load rating, but couldn't find one at two local tire dealers.. Thus the tires I have now.

The tire code for date of manufacture is 1112 or the 11th week of 2012. I hope these tires will last for five years of being parked out in the North Carolina sun.

I'm towing to Cordele on this coming Friday, a trip of almost 500 miles each way. I'll let you know how they hold up.


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Ray,

Did the 205/65 R15 tires fit OK under the Swan trailer fender?
(Although I cannot assume your fenders are the same as mine.)

My tires are originals and are 7 years old with 8,000 miles. The
trailer has been stored inside my glider hangar (way in the back) when
not on the road, so they been outside only about 30 days in the last 7
years.

Local (and highly regarded) tire guy said they looked fine and to
drive them another 5,000 miles (with my ASK-13 to and from the Vintage
Meet at Elmira, NY next month.)

Again, I only drive 50 mph on the backroads of America but 7 year old
tires give me some worry . . . it's relatively cheap to replace tires
if you can get them!

Burt
Marfa, TX USA

Burt,

The new tires fit fine below the fenders. My tires were at least six years old (I picked up the trailer at the Arlington, TX SSA convention in Feb 2006) and they probably had less than 5,000 miles on them.

I replaced them because I was worried about them "aging out", even though they looked really good to me.

I can try to get a photo of them this evening if rain isn't falling when I get home from work and I'll e-mail the shots to you.

And when I'm home, I can verify the brand name on the tires and the tire size.

In the 80 miles or so that I've towed the trailer, with a max speed of probably 65 mph, there were no "white knuckle" issues. It towed just fine. However, I did not have semi-trucks pass at a higher speed than my own. That will be the next experiment.

Tow vehicle is not a dedicated tow vehicle but the one and only car I have: 2005 Subaru Forester.

Ray

> In the 80 miles or so that I've towed the trailer...

Ray,

You obviously are not landing out enough

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:21:24 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
> > In the 80 miles or so that I've towed the trailer...
>
> Ray,
>
> You obviously are not landing out enough

Correction: In the 80 miles or so that I've towed the trailer WITH THE NEW TIRES INSTALLED. That was a trip from the tire shop to the airfield and, after flying, poorly I might add, for the day, a trip home. Yea, so about 80 miles on the new set of tires.

Ray

On a somewhat related note...trailer tire rotation...anyone do it?

I bought 3 new trailer tires at the same time...2 of them have been on the trailer and one inside as the spare. I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to put the spare into use and equalize road wear and UV damage between the 3. Tire experts, want say you?

All 3 are purpose-built tires for trailer towing. Purchased at a good price from Discount Tire here in the US...for the thread originator, you might see if they have/can get tires in your size at one of their retailers along the way to the Northeast...Midland, Abilene or Ft. Worth?

Rob

On 5/31/2012 7:50 AM, RAS56 wrote:
> On a somewhat related note...trailer tire rotation...anyone do it?

Not me. My long-standing rationale remains: until a vehicle (trailer/car)
demonstrates uneven tire wear, I'm leaving everything in place. None of my/our
trailers ever have. Some 20-ish years after the rig came into my hands, I
eventually replaced the original (to me), cheapie, Zuni trailer tires with
Redneck Trailer Supplies trailer radials at the same time I replaced the
original (broken-torsion-springs) axle. That was maybe 10 years ago.

The originals had lots of tread remaining (50%?), but even "frugal me" didn't
find it hard to talk myself into a full reset with the new axle.

The above entirely in the Rocky Mountain west...

>
> I bought 3 new trailer tires at the same time...2 of them have been on
> the trailer and one inside as the spare. I'm wondering if it would be a
> good idea to put the spare into use and equalize road wear and UV damage
> between the 3. Tire experts, want say you?

I did the same (and as it turns out, the spare - as yours, stashed in the
trailer - has always had a slow leak! Too slow to find/fix, in my lazy world.)
"Equalizing wear" seems to me more effort than any demonstrated-need might
ever be beneficial.
- - - - - -

FWIW - free anecdotal advice being worth every cent paid for it - I've owned
only 2 cars in 40 years of driving, a '72 Maverick (it was my trailer tow
vehicle) purchased new and sold in 2009, and a '90 econobox CRX purchased new
and still the daily driver. Here's what I've done, tire-wise, with both...

Ye olde Maverick had a full-size spare. After the first few years of youthful
enthusiasm during which time I rotated all 5 tires, I subsequently rotated
back-to-front only whenever wear suggested that to do so would maximize "set
life". Unlike the Honda (see below), the Maverick "required" multiple
rotations per tire set. The only non-puncture-related issue ever experienced
with any Maverick tires was when I opted to use the (15+ year old?) spare "for
a while" and it eventually delaminated, though not without sufficient warning
to exit the interstate on which I happened to be traveling/retrieving myself.
Prolly shouldna tried to use it as a long-term tire until I wore out the other
rear tire!

The Honda has a space-saver spare, a non-factor in any rotation scheme.
Usually once per tire-set-life I rotate back to front, so's to get all 4 to
wear out more or less simultaneously. It's never demonstrated a need for any
wheel to be aligned, so after 213,000 miles it remains in its as-received
alignment state. OEM tires aside, every set has lasted from 47,000 miles to
70,000 miles.

Kinda-sorta related, a HUGE time-/money-saver for me - after the Big-O tire
shop transitioned (for a while?) from internal patches to externally-inserted
plugs - was becoming (initially, very reluctantly) comfortable with the
concept of plugging holes from the outside. Once comfortable, I purchased a
Do-it-yourself tire plug kit from Whale Mart, consisting of a rasp, "needle"
and "gooey-lace plugs." In the 2 decades or so I've used it it's saved me
beaucoup hours and miles of driving into town hassling with
shops/lifts/"over-enthusiastic"-air-wrenches/unknown-people. For car tires up
to R195-70x14, the do-it-yourself kit is: a) fast; b) effective; and c) cheap.
By "effective" I mean 100% so for any puncture that any reputable shop would
patch from the inside.

I once plugged a Honda tire, by the side of the highway, in less than 15
minutes from pulling over to getting back underway, using the factory-supplied
jack.

The Maverick (no cigar lighter) required an air-tank or hand pump; I've a
lighter-powered weenie pump for the Honda.

I haven't bothered to keep track, but I've probably put 20 to 40 plugs in the
aforementioned vehicles' tires. One Honda tire had 8 separate plugs before
replacement for tread wear. (Living/driving on dirt roads in farming country
leads to LOTS of "stuff" puncturing tires.)

Having been unable to force the rasp through an 8-ply, 5th-wheel-pulled,
flatbed trailer tire the one time I tried, I reckon there's an upper tire size
limit to what any individual can plug with a Whale Mart plugger.

YMMV,
Bob W.

Bob,

Thanks for the detailed reply...it makes sense.

Reason I asked the question is I have two long hauls with the trailer scheduled this year...Texas to Ohio and then in July up to DHT from Austin to fly with you guys. PLUS, all the retrieve miles you'll put on it coming to get me while we're up there...

Wondered if it might be wise to spread the abuse amongst the 3...

I guess too (being El Cheapo Grande) the thought in 7 or 8 years of throwing away a never used tire...galls me! At least put that baby on and get some mileage outta it was my thinking.

Probably...I'm over-thinking it (not a first for me). Snagging a plug kit from Wally World sounds like a good plan as well.

Rob